Money Matters Episode 345- Books4Guys: Saving Critical Thinking in a Distracted World W/ Chris Clinard

Chris Clinard

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Welcome to Money Matters with Chris Hensley, where we spotlight financial literacy issues in the Houston community and beyond. And now your host, Chris Hensley.

I think more men in America have gambling debt, uh, sports book related, I think specifically more than... There's more men with debt than there are men who have actually read a book this year, which is- Oh, wow ... , yeah, pretty scary statistic. And Chris, it's interesting. I'm learning on the go.

I always tell people, like I didn't grow up- Mm-hmm ... reading books [00:01:00] every day and, and really focused on that, and I think that's why I'm so passionate about this now is because a little later in life, I realized how important reading was, and I'm so glad I, I did start reading more, and I got very much into it and started...

It really just started altering the way I thought about things

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Good morning, everybody. You are listening to Money Matters. I'm Chris Hensley. We have with us a fantastic guest today, , Chris Clinard. He is the host of the podcast Books for Guys.. You have a, a fantastic podcast. I was lucky enough for you to have me on your show. Um, and I think that one's not out yet, but it, it probably will be out right around, I think you're putting it out on the 17th of June, so it'll be out right around the time...

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Or, or this one might beat it out. We'll see. So uh, but, but thank you so for, so much for being on the show today. Uh, for listeners, I know you. We've been, we've been talking and, and, uh, we spent a [00:02:00] whole, uh, podcast getting to know each other. But for listeners who don't know you, can you share a little bit about yourself?

Chris Clinard: Chris, and it's, man, good to, good to see you again. I can't believe it's already been a few weeks since we recorded our Books for Guys episode. And, uh, yeah, people will get confused. It's Books number four Guys.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Yes

Chris Clinard: unique there, but, um, changed it up a little bit. But no, Chris, man, I appreciate the opportunity to, to share a little bit here.

Chris Clinard: And, and yeah, just for those of, of your audience that don't know me, um, I've been in the recruiting space for a little over 10 years now, so professional recruiting, um, technology, finance, marketing, any- anything around that. And really that's where, where Books for Guys was born out of. I was actually at a client meeting a little over three years ago and was meeting with a, a VP of a company I supported from a staffing standpoint, and we were laughing as, you know, a, a lot of the meetings I would go on, we would talk [00:03:00] about usually two things besides work, and that was typically sports, uh, and then books.

Chris Clinard: And this one guy teased, he was like, "Hey, man, you know, all these ladies have these wine and book clubs and get-togethers, and the guys just don't have anything like that, you know?" And he's like, "Man, you should, you should think about creating something." And so that's where Books for Guys, the idea came from.

Chris Clinard: And, and now over three years later, I've got hundreds and hundreds of books posted on the website. We've, we've given away hundreds of books. I think, I think I'm on episode 170, which we just kicked the podcast off last summer, so that's been humming along. And man, having some great conversations, creating impact, hopefully encouraging more reading, especially among, among guys and men.

Chris Clinard: And so it's been a adventure and a journey and, and looking forward to seeing where else it continues to go.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Well, I love it. So, you know, one, I think I- I'm [00:04:00] not sure if I shared this when I was on your show with you, but my background is I, I, uh, through college I managed a bookstore, right? So Super Crown Books, um, th- that was kind of as I ... All through school it was either different bookstores. So I'm a big fan of books and just people reading and, uh, having them in their hands, right?

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: The tactile idea of opening books and, um, very, very good stuff. I love the idea of the show. This is not a new show, by the way. As I went back and researched the podcast, you've had some hard-hitting, um, guests on there. NFL, all kinds of people, Emmy-winning broadcasters, CEOs, best-selling authors. Uh, a lot of really, really good guests.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: So we'll get into that a little bit later here, but, um, now there is data out there that men read significantly less than women, and that gap has been growing. As someone running a show specifically about men and books, what do you see? Why is this happening, and what's the cost?

Chris Clinard: [00:05:00] Yeah. Good qu- good question, Chris. And actually, I heard a stat recently too. I think more men in America have gambling debt, uh, sports book related, I think specifically more than... There's more men with debt than there are men who have actually read a book this year, which is, uh, kind of... Yeah, r- pretty, pretty scary statistic.

Chris Clinard: Um, and Chris, it's interesting. I'm learning on the go. I always tell people like, I didn't grow up reading books every day and, and really focused on that, and I think that's why I'm so passionate about this now is because a little later in life, I realized how important reading was, and I'm so glad I, I did start reading more and I got very much into it and started...

Chris Clinard: It really just started altering the way I thought about things. It created some just critical thinking in myself. It opened me up to new ideas. It made me search out full answers instead of just relying on clicks, you know, on social media and the news, and it really [00:06:00] made me start to think just in longer term format.

Chris Clinard: What's, what's the full lesson here? What's, what, what was someone trying to say? What was the context? Instead of just creating an opinion based off something I didn't know anything about. And so that's really where the idea came from of Books for Guys, was how can I inspire, espec- especially young guys, to start that curiosity journey a little bit earlier in life?

Chris Clinard: Or how can I inspire that personal development tool a little bit earlier in life? 'Cause as I peeled back the, the layers on myself, I was like, "Man, I wish I'd have read some of these books six, seven, eight years ago." And I'm like, "Man, how much more money could I have made based off some of the books I've read?

Chris Clinard: How much more could I have learned, or how much bigger of an impact could I have had?" And I was like, "Man, I gotta start putting this out there and encouraging guys to, to pick this up 'cause it's so valuable." But Chris, you know the problem, I don't know. You know, it's something I'm learning a l- along the way.

Chris Clinard: I'm learning, [00:07:00] um, you know, I've learned how important fiction reading is and I, I, I just started picking up fiction reading a few years ago. But the more I talk with people and then experts, not just i- in the publishing industry, but with doctors and people are talking about how fiction reading can spark things in kids that lead to better development and people who can do...

Chris Clinard: think more critically and, and generate more ideas, whether that be coding, whether that be building businesses. There's all sorts of positive correlation to reading fiction at a young age And, and but kids aren't reading it as much. There's so many distractions. There's so many things going on, and, and not just kids, adults too.

Chris Clinard: We're worse maybe than kids at looking at 20 different screens a day and, and consuming our s- you know, being consumed with so much that we don't need to be. And so I-- you know, Chris, I don't know. It's just something I w- I know it's an issue, and I'm just trying to do my part and, and trying to maybe spin things a [00:08:00] little bit differently and encourage people to, to go down a little bit of a different path if they, if they can

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that. I love the message there. I mean, uh, we- you talked about the idea of, of, you know, young guys, kids, getting them the idea of growth and being able to build off of these books. I always think of it, the Harvard on the Highway, I started out with the books on tape, right?

Chris Clinard: Yeah.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: uh, y- you know, we are lifelong learners.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: We don't stop. But what hit home to me was when you mentioned fiction, because even though I doubled my, like philosophy and English, right? I read a whole bunch of English in college, and then I kinda hit stop when I got in the business world, and I even got to a point where I kinda felt bad. read so many nonfiction books that were growth and, and, and, uh, high performance that when I gave myself a break to read a fiction book, I kinda felt bad about it. And, and yes, the things that you mentioned, uh, creativity, there's so much data behind the idea that these [00:09:00] books open up different ways to think about things. So giving yourself permission to read a fiction book is a good thing. I'm glad you brought that up. And then, uh, also the idea that us adults, right, we're bad at this.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: It's not just the kids. We get distracted and, and, and we pull away from those, those things. So I love this. You know, this is, for you, you, I mentioned earlier you have an incredible guest list, NFL players, Emmy-winning broadcasters, CEOs, best-selling authors. Can you walk me through a moment from one of those conversations that genuinely changed how you think about reading or leadership?

Chris Clinard: Yeah, for sure. And, and Chris, it's been such a blessing to have so many of these amazing guests on, yourself included, because I'm-- it's an opportunity for me to learn from people and from others on subjects that I have no idea about. And I know I get texts all the time where people, I don't even know, I didn't know they listened to the podcast, and they're like, "Dude, I listened to this one, like, so fascinating.

Chris Clinard: I've-- You know, [00:10:00] I'm re-listening," or, "I shared it with someone else." And so, uh, yeah, you know, Chris, it's just interesting it, it, as a whole, and I-- there's probably some people I could single out, and I'm really excited. I've got some guests that I just interviewed within the last couple of weeks I can't wait to, to post because I'm pinching myself at how I even was able to talk to them.

Chris Clinard: And so there'll be some good ones coming. But just talking with people of different industries, different upbringings, different backgrounds, and like you mentioned, there's, there's actors, there's athletes, there's broadcasters, there's leaders, there's people of all d- fiction writers. There's people that have so many different interests.

Chris Clinard: They grow up in different places. They do different things. But the common theme is just the importance of reading and the impact it's had on them, and it's the same message that, you know, they, they share is, "Hey, I-- this is so important. I've learned a lot because of this." I used to think... I had a doctor on, and he talks about how the way he thinks about medicine [00:11:00] has changed because what he learned and what he taught, all of a sudden, he had an experience where he has had to change the way he thinks and change his approach to it because it's different than what he was originally taught.

Chris Clinard: And so that, and that involved reading books and then writing his own book to share what he found. And so it's just like you said, it's that constant development, constant knowledge-seeking. And I think today we get caught, a lot of us, you know, we're looking at our phone, and next thing you know, 30 minutes have gone by and we've scrolled looking at videos that do nothing to enhance our ability to think or progress in life.

Chris Clinard: We've really just wasted time, which sometimes that's fine. You need a brain break, and you d- you wanna look at nothing and think of nothing, that's great. But if you do that for hours on hours, it can really set you back on... And especially in this day and age when you've really gotta stay ahead because with technology and AI and I know you with finance, learning how to [00:12:00] be, um, responsible with, with your money if y- and if you're not, you can really end up in a, in a bad spot quicker than most people realize.

Chris Clinard: But you've gotta be continuously learning and growing, and that's what all these guests have in common. They just have that, I don't know, that, that tick to improve, that, that drive to be the best, and they're always just constantly learning no matter what the subject is. And so I find that fascinating from, from most everyone that I've been able to talk to so far.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that, that that pattern has bubbled up after the many episodes that you've done with each of the guests. You're finding a common thread that runs across them, and that's the idea of continuous learning, uh, the love of learning to, to improve. Um, you know, you d- y- we, what we don't wanna do, the thing you mentioned earlier, the doom scrolling, right?

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: We get in that habit of just getting on our phones or our tablets and getting down that rabbit hole. So [00:13:00] I, I love that. I think that's really good. Now I'm gonna pivot. I, I wanna ask you something, um, personal. You put Digital Kaizen, which is the book that I published in April, sorry, I'm not on your science and technology list alongside Steve Jobs, Hawking, Ted Mark, The Code Breaker. That's serious company. I feel a little, I mean, like, ah, feel a little, uh, heat here in the hot seat. What did you see in the book that earned that spot? And, and no, I'm not fishing for compliments. I'm trying to understand what your filter actually is when you decide what makes your list.

Chris Clinard: Yeah. Well, in your book, it, it, it's, it's... We talked about on my podcast, there's probably not a better time to be releasing a book like that as we're en- engulfed in AI and, and trying to figure out how to work with it responsibly and, and be, um, uh, just, just not lose ourselves to it. And, and it's a technology.

Chris Clinard: It's, it's [00:14:00] a... When you think of Steve Jobs, you think of the technologies that they were a part of or, or the companies they were part of building, they... It was a... I'm trying to think of the right terms to use here, Chris, but it had such an impact on, on so many people i- indirectly too. I mean, I'm a user of the iPhone, and holy cow, like I, you know, I've never been within thousands of miles of Steve Jobs, but just how impactful the way he thought was and, and, and your book was the same way.

Chris Clinard: We talked about the power of, of voice and the importance of it, not losing it, and, and it just, it resonated to, to that same level of just importance and impact that that needs to continue to have, and let's not get lost into it. And so, you know, it just, it's something that needs to be studied. And so as I was sitting there looking at it, I'm sitting there like technology, science, there's so many different ways this book can be looked at and, [00:15:00] and what different lenses you could see through it.

Chris Clinard: And so that's really where I, I just wanted to put it in different places where people could discover it because maybe they see it from a different angle than I do or, or even you do as a writer. I'm sure, I'm sure you've gotten feedback on it from people, and they've told you things that maybe you weren't even thinking about when you put it out there

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: 100%, 100%. Um, I totally agree with that. And, and looking at the list of, of... You've got some really good recommendations on your, on your, uh, website here. That book- that website, for listeners, it's books4guys.com. And there's the main website there, but he's also got a book list that is just fantastic. I'm seeing a whole bunch of really good stuff on there. I think I wanna talk a little bit about, um, the pro- kinda how you run the Books for Guys, because there is a, an aspect of it where you're giving away some books. Can you tell us about [00:16:00] that?

Chris Clinard: Yeah. And so that's what's cool too, and we'll kind of go through this, but I put a lot of books on there, and I, and I'm for... I, I get the funny question all the time, like, "Did you read all these?" And I'm like, "I can't possibly read all these books." Um, they're on my want to read list, no doubt. But the whole purpose is to encourage people to read what they're interested in.

Chris Clinard: Because as I was talking with a lot of people too, and e-even myself peeling back the layers, when I really got into reading was when I actually picked up books that I genuinely wanted to read. And for me, as a former college athlete, at the time, it was books about sports, it was books about athletes, it was books about coaches.

Chris Clinard: But then reading about coaches, that transitioned into me wanting to know more about leadership and then personal development, and then that went to finance, and then it went to different subjects, and then fiction. And so this, this snowball effect happened. And so I try to put as many books on the website as possible, and that's a daily thing I'm updating and trying to put those options out there so that no [00:17:00] matter what somebody's interested in, they can find a book that they may be interested in reading or purchasing, um, and so they can start their own journey.

Chris Clinard: But no, I really s- I was really thinking critically of Books for Guys and how to be a little bit different. Obviously, I call it Books for Guys as a, you know, I wanna encourage young men and men to read more in general. But I was like, "How can I build this platform to where I'm promoting books, I'm, I'm really pushing the idea of reading, but also, like, how can I support authors as well?"

Chris Clinard: And so I created the Books for Guys community, which is really cool because as I meet with authors and people, it's always nice if they say like, "Hey man, we'd love to give a book away so you can give it away to people." Like super awesome. Um, but I wanna have a way to be able to purchase a book from the person who wrote it so that they can be supported while I also give it away to somebody who may be interested in reading it.

Chris Clinard: So I've created this path of a Books for Guys community to where it supports [00:18:00] both sides. And so, like one example, we do do book giveaways, so anyone who joins the Books for Guys community, um, we typically give away five or six books a month to those who support us as just a way to say thank you for supporting us.

Chris Clinard: So d- for those that don't know, it's $30 a year or $3 a month. So not very expensive, but each member allows usually the purchase of two books. And so our goal is every year we're giving away more books and more books and more books and growing that program. Um, so one example, last year we worked with three high school football programs to do their player of the week award

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: wow

Chris Clinard: Yeah, so the, the player of the week, their coaches picked them.

Chris Clinard: They got to pick whatever book they wanted, and we would purchase it and send it to them. And it was so cool seeing what they picked because these kids, they're interested in, in so many different things. We had kids pick books about crypto. We had kids p- pick books about different athletes they were interested in.

Chris Clinard: We had a couple fiction books, sci-fi fantasy [00:19:00] novels get picked, and so it was really cool. Um, but this fall we've been able to up that to six programs who are gonna do their Books for Guys Player of the Week awards. So over that, that fall timeframe between those schools, we'll probably give away somewhere between 70 and 80, 85 books, um, just for those programs.

Chris Clinard: And we've got some entrepreneurship programs we've started to work with. Um, so there's only-- there's so many different things we're doing with it to give away books, but the entire goal is, hey, how can we give away more and more books every month, every year? And so that's part of the growth and the, and the long-term vision of what we're building.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: That's fantastic. I love that. Um, y- you know, you're putting y- there's action behind your mission here, and I'm seeing it. Uh, the numbers that you just give, 75 to 80 books, and that's just for those programs. They're getting into the hands of high schools, uh, high school students, athletes, um, and they're surprising you with the topics that they're picking, right?

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: These, these [00:20:00] young folks are picking cryptocurrency, they're picking, uh, leadership books. They're picking stuff that we wouldn't necessarily pick out for them, right? So you're giving them the option of going on there and picking out the books. I, I think that is fantastic. It's a really good way, uh, for those books to get out there and for kids to get literate, to, to learn to do things outside of just getting on the, the video games and their screens and going down that, that rabbit hole there.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: So that is... I love that. I love your mission. Um, and it, it was only, I think it was you said $30 a year

Chris Clinard: $30 a year

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: to

Chris Clinard: or $30 a month. Yep

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: or support. That's awesome. That is awesome. Um, and, and just a really unique way. I mean, as a, as a recent author, I'm looking at different ways that people are... Some people are donating books to libraries. Uh, some people are... I've got a buddy who's an author that every time he travels, he goes to the airport, he leaves a free copy in the, uh, around the airport and just says, "This is for you when you pick it up." [00:21:00] But, um, those don't make it into the hands of kids. And so if that's our goal is to get young, young men out there reading more, uh, just a great program, a really good way to, to, to start that off, I think. Um, Well, so walk me through a little bit, um, more about, uh, some of the guests that you've had on before. Maybe some of those that have stood out to you, um, in your own, um, guess education. Yeah, that's the way I put it because after doing this for a decade, it's like you learn from the guests too, right?

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: So a- as you kinda discovered, you went through this self-discover journey, are there some that have stuck out, um, to the top? I'm not trying to tell you- ask your favorite ones there, but there

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: are some, uh, those, those moments that probably stuck out.

Chris Clinard: Yeah, and I'll name a few. Um, but there's been some really cool ones too. I mean, we've had consultants on time management. We've had,

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Mm-hmm.

Chris Clinard: you know, several... Joel Goldberg, he's the sideline reporter for [00:22:00] the Kansas City Royals. He's also a speaker. He's actually got two books out, but it's really cool to see how he took his platform as working with athletes and then being able to help in different avenues as well.

Chris Clinard: And that's what's cool too, Chris, is having so many of these guests. You know, you think of these high school football players, you know, it's really cool that I've been able to have some, some former professional athletes on there talk about the importance of reading, because maybe that's, that's who they're gonna connect with the most.

Chris Clinard: Or maybe there's a kid who's really into AI and science and math and, and maybe it's your book that they connect with the most 'cause they, they wanna look at things a little bit different in the space. And so... But Joel was one, one of the, the, the guys I really enjoyed talking with and learning more about.

Chris Clinard: Um, I just had a recent guest on, Nir Eyal, and, uh, he's actually sold over a million copies of his book, and he's all about... He, he's kind of a little bit different, but he used to, he used to... He wrote a book first actually about how companies [00:23:00] can actually, uh, sell their product and get us as consumers hooked.

Chris Clinard: Uh, and he's kind of changed paths a little bit to where now he works with people on how to minimize distraction and not get hooked to what companies are, are trying to sell you. So it's a unique way of just maximizing your life and, and he's got some really great lessons around there as well, and he was one of the authors that I had no idea would take the time to come on Books for Guys, but he was so gracious and loved the mission and, and just his platform.

Chris Clinard: I think he's got 380,000 followers on LinkedIn. I mean, a big-time guy with a big influence, and his work is... He's doing a lot of great work. But Joel, and h- by the way, he's a former Stanford professor, all kinds of different things, so very unique background. Um, Rennie Curran, former, uh, Georgia linebacker, NFL linebacker.

Chris Clinard: He's doing some public speaking, but his-- the way he grew up and then to see a former athlete at that level [00:24:00] transition to do the work that he's doing now as, as a leader and, and a lot of companies are seeking him to come speak to their sales teams and, and a lot of this, which is really cool. Um, but no, Chris, I mean, there's just so many.

Chris Clinard: I mean, I've t- and even I've talked to some really good, like, sci-fi, uh, fantasy writers who have different series out there, and that's not something I've ever been interested in reading personally, but I really wanted to challenge myself to have those conversations to learn more about how they create those worlds and those characters and how they got interested in, you know, sci-fi and fantasy.

Chris Clinard: And then it was just cool. It was a different type of person that I've never interacted with before. But by the end of my conversations, I was like, "Dang, I'm hyped up. I'm gonna go read, read these books," you know? And,

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Yeah

Chris Clinard: but I think that's the whole point of it is you, you just... People are more alike than they are different, and having those one-on-one conversations, learning about people, learning about their [00:25:00] interests, why they do what they do, what they've been able to accomplish because of the work they've put in over here is just...

Chris Clinard: There's so many. I hate to just, you know, name names 'cause everyone I've talked to. I mean, I had a f- a former military individual who was on the, the presidential staff as part of like security. I mean, so many people that I just can't believe I've had the opportunity to talk to. Um, Dr. Romie, she wrote "The Busy B-Brain Cure."

Chris Clinard: You know, a lot of us, we just go, go, go. We wear ourselves out, and she's a, she's a doctor who has studied this, went through it herself, and so, um, she has a great story and message. But there's so many, so many great people I've been able to talk to and, and have their messages shared on our platform

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love it. I love it. I, I, uh, your story, um, and that's the thing, books is a very broad topic, right? So it tends to be, and money's the same way, so you, you, you'll, you end up going in all these different directions, but [00:26:00] there is a common thread that ties them all together. But also the things that you're most interested to, uh, as you select guests, it just kind of bubbles up.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: You're not even trying, but it's like, "Okay, this kind of interests me. Let me have this guy on there." So I, I think it's fantastic. I love the show. I love the idea. Um, where do you see this going? What's your vision for the podcast, say, in the next five years or so?

Chris Clinard: Yeah. Great question, Chris. And, and obviously I mentioned I'm in recruiting earlier. Love recruiting, but I would love for one day, uh, Books for Guys to be my sole focus. And it, and, and hopefully we get to a number that that's the case, because I would love nothing more than every single week to be like, "Okay, what school are we traveling to this week?

Chris Clinard: How many students are we taking to the bookstore? What program are we working with?" I would love for that to be my daily, uh, management and task to try and get more books in the hands of young people. Um, but no, I just, I just wanna continue growing the [00:27:00] impact. It's, it's obviously, it's obviously gone in a direction that I, I had no idea it was gonna go in.

Chris Clinard: When I started Books for Guys, I knew I had a vision and a purpose, but I couldn't clearly define it. And really up until about 18 months ago, that was the case. And now as, like I mentioned, peeling back the layers on myself and creating the actual mission of getting more books out there and sharing these conversations and just, just having as much of a positive impact as I can.

Chris Clinard: I think that's another thing too, is there's so many negative things we see, but why don't we, why don't we talk more about the hard work or the things that we learn and the things that can help us improve in different areas of our lives? And, and that can include reading fiction, or that can include learning about something different in the medical space, or learning about an athlete and, and why they do the things they do.

Chris Clinard: And so, no, I just... Chris, I just wanna have a bigger impact. I mean, I've thought about this. I'm like, "Hey, how can I, how can we grow this thing to where we have [00:28:00] 10,000 community members who are all helping get these books in places?" And, you know, what guests can we have on? I don't know. I love talking with every guest, but, like, who, who, who's interested in coming on?

Chris Clinard: I wanna talk with everyone, you know? So as many positive conversations I can have, as many books as I can give away. Um, again,

Chris Clinard: I think the, the goal right now, and I'm, I'm one of those too, I think the goalpost moves when you accomplish certain things, um, because you're just continually developing and trying to do better and better. Um, but I think the, the goal within five years, I'd say, is how can I get to a point where this is my sole focus and we're, we're, we have enough support to where literally I'm just trying to figure out where to give all these books to, and how many can I purchase, and how many authors can I support along the way as well.

Chris Clinard: So, uh, I guess that's kind of the answer for now

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: That's a good answer. Good answer. I love that. For listeners, the podcast is [00:29:00] Books, the number four, Books4Guys. Uh, Chris, before we wrap up the show, is there anything that I forgot to ask you that you'd like to share with listeners today?

Chris Clinard: No, no. Uh, Chris, I love these conversations. I just, I love the opportunity. We're trying to grow this the right way. And, and it really, it's just through conversations. It's talking with different people. If people are interested in knowing more about us, we've got the website. It's got links that show the podcast.

Chris Clinard: It shows the community. Um, it shows everything we're doing. I post a lot on LinkedIn, is where I spend a lot of time. But we've got our YouTube channel going now, our Instagram channel going now. They're all fairly new, started within the last six months. So, uh, a work in progress, but everything's getting better every day.

Chris Clinard: But no, Chris, I appreciate the opportunity to talk about Books for Guys and just what we're trying to build and do with it. And, uh, may- maybe in five years we'll have another conversation and we can talk, look back over this timeframe and talk about all the progress that has taken place. And, uh, that'd pr- that'd be a really cool [00:30:00] conversation and something I'd like to accomplish as well

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love it. One of the guests that you mentioned that you had on there, the one, the most recent one, uh, it's working by the way, because I saw this on LinkedIn, 'cause I'm following you on LinkedIn now, and I was like, "Oh, I gotta watch that show. That looks really interesting." So I love it. I love it. For listeners, go find Chris on LinkedIn.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: He d- he is active on LinkedIn as well. Um, and uh, that is it. Chris, thank you so much for being on the show. Have a good rest of the day there.

Chris Clinard: Thank you, Chris