Money Matters Episode 346- The Working Budget: Budgeting, Kaizen, and Better Money Habits W/Jabez Roberts

The Working Budget Dialogue with Jabez

[00:00:00] What would you say to somebody who you, you tell them that and they're like, "You know, I just don't like budgeting"?

Maybe they have a misperception of budgeting because how can you not love having money for yourself? Like, think about it. If you go to Starbucks every day for one month, that's about $300, give or take, for a $10 latte. Do you know how much money you'll have at the end of the year just investing that $300 every month into a high yield savings account?

It's not $1,200. And I think that's what's most important. You only dislike budgeting if you don't realize what it can do for you and your future self

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Good morning. You're listening to Money Matters. I'm Chris Hensley. We have a fantastic show lined up for you today. I've got my friend, Jabez here with me today, and, um, this is a really a continuation of a conversation that we had on [00:01:00] Monday. Now, about two and a half years ago, uh, I started a, a podcast tour to promote the 10-year anniversary of Money Matters.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I had a personal goal of reaching out to 30 different podcast hosts to get the message out. And your show, uh, at the time, w- I was thankful enough that you had me on there. Um, fast-forward, uh, to recently, you reached out to me, and you are starting a new show

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: So separate from the Boardroom Podcast, you have recently started a new podcast that is focused on the working budget. So let's start. I'm super excited because, um, I know you and we've been talking and with this kind of a continuation of that conversation. But for listeners who, who would like to get to know you a little bit better, can you share a little bit about yourself, and then tell us a little bit about the new podcast, The Working Budget?

Jabez: Okay, perfect. And, um, thanks for having me, Chris. I do appreciate the invite. This is my first podcast [00:02:00] appearance, so to have it with a friend, really special. Um, to get started, very simply, my name is, uh, Jabez Roberts. Uh, you coined that pronunciation of my name just now. It's starting to grow on me. And we met about two and a half years ago on my first podcast, the Boardroom Podcast.

Jabez: Now, on the Boardroom Podcast, that's where we talk primarily about business, entrepreneurship, and how to navigate a life of business in lieu of your daily life. So it was more about business and entrepreneurship. The Working Budget, which we had our first episode on Monday, you were our first guest, that's primarily about what it says, the working budget.

Jabez: How do we navigate today's financial times? I think that money knowledge is something that we need not only know, but practice, and I was very honored and ecstatic actually to have you on for the premiere episode, and I'm looking forward to our chat today

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: . Well, so [00:03:00] that is, I 100% agree the topic is fantastic there. Now you're, you're there in Jamaica, and the reason I bring that, that up, we're here in the States. The first time that we, uh, that we tried to connect and do the podcast, there literally was an earthquake right before that, right? A- a- and so, you know, right before we, we hit record on the, podcast, a national disaster. We're here in Houston in Texas, the Gulf Coast. We have hurricanes, so there was that, that connection point for sure there. Um, but I, I love the topic. I think this is a, a really good direction for you. I'm gonna pivot a little bit because on Monday's recording on your show, you voluntarily connected Kaizen compound interest. Where does that connection live for you?

Jabez: All right. So that earthquake was a game changer. It knocked the communications out. Everyone was in a panic. Work stopped for most people half day and, um, [00:04:00] a lot of things were destroyed, but no one was killed, and I'm thankful for that. As it comes to compound interest and Kaizen, Kaizen comes from the Japanese culture, where they believe that constant tiny improvement is more important than spurts, doing a lot of work in spurts.

Jabez: And I think one of the biggest embodiments of that is they don't have a literal word in Japanese that translate to retirement as we speak about it in the Western countries here. Now, retirement means you leave your work and pretty much go off to die. That doesn't happen in Japan, and that's because work is a part of your development.

Jabez: And the reason why all of this relates to compound interest is because compound interest can work for or against you. Now, in the context of working for you, compound interest is literally daily improvements. Now, if you look on it on the face of things, you might have an [00:05:00] investment fund or investment vehicle of some kind, or you might be practicing a new skill.

Jabez: The way that compound interest can be best explained in lieu of these two examples is that yesterday you made one step forward, today you make another step forward, but the starting point today is the ending point yesterday, which is a step forward, meaning that tomorrow you may do another step, but you're actually starting from two steps forward versus where you initially started.

Jabez: And I think that gives you the beauty and the power of compound interest and Kaizen. Not only can your investments grow, but you as a person, and you should know, I hope everyone knows this, your most important investment is always in yourself. You also can grow from tiny increments each day.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I'm gonna move on to the second question here. Now, you ran the, The Boardroom Podcast for over a year. Now you've relaunched as The [00:06:00] Working Budget. What changed for you? What was Boardroom missing that Working Budget gives you now?

Jabez: I'm going to tell you a story that's going to shock you. So I have been in entrepreneurship, running my own business since, um, the seventh grade. So in the seventh grade, I was selling sweets illegally at school, and, uh, that's wh- that was my first foray into entrepreneurship. Didn't end so well. My inventory got stolen.

Jabez: I didn't have security on hand, and I was running an illegal business, so I couldn't go to the police, AKA the teachers, right? So I started entrepreneurship back then, and I went seriously into it in about 2015, doing a business with my brother. And un- from that point until about two years ago, I only knew the financial health of my business around tax season.

Jabez: When the taxes were done, and I saw the balance sheet, I saw the income statement or my [00:07:00] P&L, and I realized that, oh, so that's where my money is going. That wasn't good enough. On The Boardroom Podcast, it primarily teaches about building a business, how to market, how to get sales, create a sales team, how to balance, um, your work and your life, and that's all fine and dandy, but that's a very small subset of the population.

Jabez: And at the core, I really want to help people. The Working Budget works alongside The Boardroom Podcast in that The Working Budget is going to help us understand how money moves throughout the economy, and the economy is not just the country, it's also your personal economy. How your money moves from a paycheck to your expenses, to your investments, to your pleasure spends, and to your retirement, which is also very important, even at the age of 20.

Jabez: So it's really just to bring light to the importance of daily money management and keeping up to date with your [00:08:00] finances.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: The, the story you shared about the candy, right? So I remember some of my first, uh, entrepreneurial efforts were selling the newspaper door to door, and, uh, people looking at you through the window and just not answering the door. So, so I, I think we

Jabez: Ah, I have to try

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: early on, that, that entrepreneur spirit.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: . Now, walk me through who actually listens to The Working Budget. Not the demographic, but the human picture. Who is the person you're recording each episode for?

Jabez: So I have two demographics, and they tend to overlap. For the Broad Room Podcast, I get a lot of people who want to start businesses, people who love podcasts, people who want to learn about entrepreneurship, and they have a place where they can congregate and learn from people who have done exactly what they want to do.

Jabez: That kind of [00:09:00] direction and education from practical-- from a practical point of view, someone who's actually done it, not from a theoretical point of view, I think that beats any degree that you're ever gonna get. Not to say you shouldn't go to university, not that-- not to say you shouldn't get a degree, but the power is really in the application of knowledge.

Jabez: It's not in the acquisition of knowledge. For the Working Budget, our target audience is the everyday person. It doesn't have to be a financial planner. It doesn't have to be an economist. Heck, it doesn't even have to be an adult. It can just be a college student trying to figure out how to go to college without falling into debt, and that's why we're not only going to interview the experts, but we're also going to speak with the daily person, the average Joe who has figured out something that's working for them.

Jabez: Now, important to note, this is not about getting rich quick. This is not about the best stocks to buy. This is about how to manage your money so that it works for you

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: [00:10:00] I love that, that when I started Money Matters many years ago, that is very similar to the same vision. Uh, you said the average Joe, that person on the street, uh, those real-life experiences. I, I think that is fantastic. Now, I notice you have a stack of books there on your desk. You reference books a lot. I remember last time we talked about Rich Dad Poor Dad, uh, Richest Man in Babylon, um, the 70/20/10 ratio. What's the book that most shaped how you think about money?

Jabez: Wow. The book that most shaped how I think about money. I think I'm still, I'm still gonna have to go with The Richest Man in Babylon. And, um, the reason why I go with that book, it's because growing up you always hear that you should save. And I don't know if I'm hard-headed and stubborn or I just need to understand what I'm [00:11:00] doing and why.

Jabez: But when I read The Richest Man in, Man in Babylon, it- it's basically fables. Now, they could be true, they could not be true, it doesn't matter to me. It's the lesson behind the fables that's important. It tells a story of people going from poverty to wealth and wealth to poverty, and the practical lessons behind the fa- fall and rise of these gentlemen.

Jabez: And the thing that I love most about The Richest Man in Babylon is that each money lesson, as you would put it, is told and taught in a relatable story that applies not only in the time of Babylon, which we know was one of the world's superpowers at one point, but also how it can apply to you today. The stories are that relatable.

Jabez: So from a practical perspective, just on how to manage money, I'd have to go with The Richest Man in Babylon

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Good choice. Good choice., One of the things we did talk about on the, on your show on Monday was y- kind [00:12:00] of a younger, um, audience. So sometimes if we have somebody that's maybe in their early 20s, if a 22-year-old listener walked up and asked you for the one book to start with on money, what would you hand them?

Jabez: One book to start with on money. I'll tell you what, it really does depend on the individual. For a general book, you could go with Rich Dad Poor Dad, but for most people I would still, I would still go with, um, The Richest Man in Babylon. For some people, so it depends, like I said, if it's someone... So I'm gonna categorize so our listeners can have a very good idea of what works for them.

Jabez: If you have no idea about how money works, you're not from wealth, you don't have people in your family who have been good with money, not because your family doesn't have money mean that money can't come from, you just need to learn from someone who has money and who teaches well how to manage money.

Jabez: For that person, The Richest [00:13:00] Man in Babylon would be number one. If it's somebody who's been around wealth somewhat and they don't really understand how it works, then you're gonna go with Rich Dad Poor Dad. And for everyone who is in these categories, I am going to ask that you read a second book. Now, this book is going to be called, um, I just had it on the tip of my tongue.

Jabez: Yes, One Up On Wall Street by Peter Lynch, and it's gonna talk about investment. Now, I'm pretty sure at some point we'll touch on investment, but quite simply, after you've gone through The Richest Man in Babylon, after you've gone through Rich Dad Poor Dad, the idea of saving is going to be emphasized, and saving only works to a certain point.

Jabez: At some point after that, you're gonna want to invest, and investment is where your money is going to actually start working for you, making money for you while you sleep. So two books. Always go to One Up On Wall Street by Peter Lynch, and one [00:14:00] of Rich Dad Poor Dad or The Richest Man in Babylon. And if you're an avid reader, you can go with all three

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: All three of them are great. Uh, in fact, the one up on Wall Street, I read that when it came out back in the '90s. Uh, one

Jabez: Wow

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: uh, investment accounts was through Fidelity, and so that was when, uh, Peter Lynch was running Magellan. And, uh, being somebody who studied philosophy, I had an affinity with him because he was a philosophy major.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: And so a lot of finance people, they have business, they have, you know, accounting backgrounds, but he had that , philosophy background where I was like, "Okay, this is that." So that one stuck with me. I think that's a great one. So people go out there and get it and read it. Um, now there is, there is a quiet stewardship undertone in everything that you do, and I know this from talking with you here. Is that a deliberate choice for The Working Budget, or is it just who you are?

Jabez: It's who I've become. [00:15:00] Initially, I would say it was always there, but not emphasized much, um, enough. Initially, I wanted to be a billionaire, and the reason why was because I wanted to help people, and I realized that with wealth come a certain level of influence and power. And that was the primary reason.

Jabez: One, I would have the money to do it myself. I wouldn't have to depend on others to, you know, move the needle. But as time went by, I started to realize that I don't need to be a billionaire to help people. And I've realized that the quickest way and the most effective way to help someone is giving them practical advice and direction on how they can help themselves.

Jabez: And this is powerful because you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. But someone who wants to make something of themselves, they want to change their lives, sometimes and most times, they just need a bit of inspiration, perhaps just one percent, half percent of motivation, and everything else is just practical education and [00:16:00] direction, in which direction to go and what to do to change their lives.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that. That's a great answer there. What's been the hardest part of building your business as a one-person leveraged operation while running the podcast on top of everything else?

Jabez: Hardest part is definitely connecting with the right people. So we always have this question, which one came first, the chicken or the egg, right? Well, in my business, the question is always going to be which one is gonna come first, helping others or getting helped financially? And I've decided to separate the two.

Jabez: If you help people, the money will come. But if the money comes and you're not helping anyone, then the money will go. Therefore, help people. So I would think that it's not even a question anymore of which is harder, it's a question of which is more important, and I've narrowed down on helping people. So, [00:17:00] um, unbeknownst to you, um, one of the things that I've figured out quite recently, literally last night, was the exact direction I want to take my company, Zealan.

Jabez: So under Zealan, that's where we operate The Boardroom podcast. But Zealan was primarily about helping businesses, uh, connecting businesses with their ideal clients and customers, you know, websites, marketing, growth strategies, stuff like that. And we did well. We got a lot of results, but the results were fragmented in the sense that only a few people were benefiting because there are only so many people we can help.

Jabez: So I've decided to take Zealan in a media-first direction, and the idea is we're going to build the foremost education platform for Caribbean nationals to learn not only about business and entrepreneurship, but finance and money management so that more people can get their life going in the right direction

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that. When you have a mission like that to help others, to have the stewardship in [00:18:00] there, um, doing it at scale, you know, it's, it's being able to help more people at once. A- and, and really, um, that is, that is a great direction. I love that. Where do you want the working budget to be in 12 months? Not just downloads, what does success look like for you?

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Who's listening that isn't listening now?

Jabez: It's hard to measure our success by views and downloads. And, um, so last night I watched a video from Steven Bartlett, and he's from, uh, "The Diary of a CEO," and he said one of his metrics that he realized early on was that he created a lot of viral, um, campaigns, advertisements, and people would not remember it, right?

Jabez: So you'd get thirty million, hundreds of millions. I think he said the average view was between four and thirty million, so it was about ten million views per campaign that he [00:19:00] created. But once someone watched it, it's like a viral clip on TikTok. You watch a video, it's funny, and you move on five minutes later, you don't remember it.

Jabez: That's not impact. That's reach. How many people see your content. Impact is when he started his podcast, "The Diary of a CEO," and he got, let's say, ten thousand views, a hundred thousand views, but a hundred times more people would stop him in the street and talk specifics about what they learned and how the content helped them.

Jabez: So the success metric isn't even about views and downloads. It's literally about lives changed. Now, lives changed is hard to measure because someone might have their life changed and not reach out and say, "Hey, this is what your content did for me." But I am confident that if the content is being put out in such a way that is providing value in a practical sense, and if it doesn't meet a certain threshold, we trash it.

Jabez: That would be where I want [00:20:00] it to be. Now, for who is the listener, I want everyone to listen. I want grandma to listen. I want dad to listen. I want my brother, my son, and if my son has a son, I want everyone to listen. The reason is that financial education doesn't have to be gated or age-related. Uh, you taught me a valuable lesson about how you even help your kids handle finances and saving, and that's what I want more people to tune in and get practical lessons that is literally changing their lives, even if I don't know how many people's lives have been changed

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: What a great message there. What I, I did pick up when you said that if it doesn't meet your standards, you throw it out, right? So I hear, I hear taste, I hear quality, I hear you putting, if you're gonna put your name on it, it- it's good stuff. So I, I love that and, and, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's out there that's not, not great, so, um, having that filter, um, [00:21:00] that's worked well for your other show and I'm sure on The Working Budget it's gonna work just as well for this. Where can listeners find The Working Budget and stay connected with what you're building?

Jabez: So the Work in Budget and The Boardroom Podcast are both part of the Zeilhan brand. You can find both shows at media.zeilhan.com, or you can simply go to YouTube and type in Zeilhan The Boardroom Podcast. Our YouTube channel will appear with all relevant links to Spotify, Apple, our blog, our primary website, and partner websites as well.

Jabez: The easiest place I would say definitely is YouTube today, though

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: YouTube's a huge, uh, e- it's a huge place for people to see all of this stuff, so that's a good place to, to point them there. For listeners who'd like to find more, that's where we will point you. And, um, what have I forgot to ask you that you'd like to share with listeners today?

[00:22:00]

Jabez: So what is my philosophical view of money? Um, we can take a look at stocks, for example, and we realize that money is emotional. Not the money itself, but the person using the money, right? So if we look at Nvidia, we see a very high valuation, and whether or not the company is providing that level of utility and help to the general public, that's up for debate.

Jabez: Uh, the SpaceX IPO, I think they say it's gonna be one point seven five trillion, and they made, what, twenty billion in profit. No, they made a twenty billion dollar loss last year, I believe. So money is emotional. It doesn't have to make logical sense. It has to make emotional sense, which means that when it comes to handling money and a general appreciation for money, the less emotional you can be, the more of an advantage you'll have.

Jabez: So the impulse buys, not really [00:23:00] necessary most of the time. It's an emotion. However, those things that are necessary, saving for retirement, you don't see the value of it at twenty years old. At thirty years old, it's in the back of your mind, but at fifty, it's pretty pressing. So I think money in its overall essence is nothing more than a tool, and it's highly emotional today because of how it's being used.

Jabez: However, if you can look at it from a logical perspective at-- that it's a tool, and how I use it determines what return I get from it, then you'll be way ahead of the curve.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Lot of good stuff there. I love that, the idea of, of if you're less emotional and coming at it, uh, uh, in a logical way, that can work in your favor. Um, you did mention some life events. You talked about retirement, um, and, and these things that do come online. Whether you're looking for it or not, it's gonna come, right?

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: So, so having that on your radar for sure i- is a huge thing. [00:24:00] And then handling money, just the idea of handling it with less emotion, that ties back into the budget. What can you tell us about budgeting and the idea of keeping a budget?

Jabez: So budgeting is the roadmap to financial success. You don't hop in your car, start driving, and hope you end up somewhere safe, somewhere pleasurable. Before you get in the car, you have an idea of where you want to go. If you've been there before and you have a preferred route, then perfectly fine. If it's your first time, that's where Google Maps comes into play, and in my country, they have an app called Waze.

Jabez: That's where the roadmap comes into play. It's just an insurance and a pathway to get to where you want to be. The budget is similar. You don't just get your paycheck, you don't just get your dividends on your investment and say, " You know what? It'll all work out someday." Yeah, it will, but perhaps not in your favor.

Jabez: So having just a [00:25:00] plan and sticking to that plan is important. I also want to emphasize that of equal importance of having a budget is also understanding how to execute on that budget. As frictionless as possible as you can make saving and investing, you should do that, and then you spend what's left, because then it's not a matter of giving up something that you want, it's a matter of earning what you want because you've fulfilled your obligations to your future self in saving and investing

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: I love that. That makes a lot of sense. Those are all good, um, uh, ideas around the idea of budgeting. What would you say to somebody who you, you tell them that and they're like, "You know, I just don't like budgeting"?

Jabez: Maybe they have a misperception of budgeting because how can you not love having money for yourself? Like, think about it. If you go to Starbucks every day for one month, that's about three hundred dollars, [00:26:00] give or take, for a ten dollar latte. Do you know how much money you'll have at the end of the year just investing that three hundred dollars every month into a high-yield savings account?

Jabez: It's not one thousand two hundred dollars. And I think that's what's most important. You only dislike budgeting if you don't realize what it can do for you and your future self. And you should also think about that one time something terrible happened, and it was an absolute disaster. How much more eas-- how much easier would it have been to handle that emergency or that difficult time in life if you had, for example, an emergency fund, or you had some cash to fall back on, or you had an investment that you could sell to see to that healthcare emergency or even take care of your parents.

Jabez: Budgeting is your best friend if you understand how it works for you

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: And I, I think that is a great space to l- we're bumping right here towards the end of the show. In the [00:27:00] last two minutes or sh- or, or so here, um, would you like to, to share with listeners on a closing note?

Jabez: Don't wait on the government, your parents, your senator to make things work for you. We're in an age where information is most readily available than at any point in history. If there is something that you want, and I'm pretty sure you're on the right path if you're listening because you've taken the first step to gather information, just go for it.

Jabez: It's gonna be a little bit difficult. You are gonna get knocked down ten times, perhaps twenty. Just get up one more time and keep going. And in a few years, remember Kaizen, remember compounding interest. In a few years of consistent effort, you will be extremely surprised by where you are, because where you are today is far ahead of where you were last week, this day

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: The [00:28:00] show is The Working Budget. I encourage everybody to go and listen. We're just right at the beginning there, but I know based on the, the, uh, boardroom, uh, uh, podcast you have, you're gonna have a bunch of great guests on there, and it's gonna be high quality. So I encourage everybody to, to follow along.

Christopher Hensley RICP, CES: Uh, thank you so much. I know we're gonna have another one of these down the road as well. We'll talk again after that show's been going and have another interview follow up on it. Um, have a good rest of the day there

Jabez: Thank you, Chris. It's been wonderful, and have a wonderful day to all your listeners